Legislature(2009 - 2010)BUTROVICH 205
04/17/2009 01:30 PM Senate HEALTH & SOCIAL SERVICES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB35 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 35 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | SB 172 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HB 35-NOTICE & CONSENT FOR MINOR'S ABORTION
1:37:31 PM
CHAIR DAVIS announced consideration of HB 35. [SCS for CS for HB
35(HSS), labeled 26-LS0192\E had been adopted during the 4/13/09
hearing and was the working document before the committee.]
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL, sponsor of HB 35, noted that version E
was the working document. He offered to go through version E and
to answer questions.
SENATOR ELLIS asked how the notification provisions would work
if the person who impregnated the girl is one of the family.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL replied in a case like that there would
be an allegation of sexual abuse and no notification would be
required, but a doctor would have to confirm the sexual abuse.
1:41:52 PM
SENATOR ELLIS stated that doctors are already required to report
sexual abuse.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL answered that is true, but this is a
unique area of law so he thought it had to be more clearly
pointed out, especially under the conditions where someone would
be seeking an abortion without parental notification or consent.
Right now, there is a real question as to the legality of
mandatory reporting.
SENATOR ELLIS asked if it is fair to say that HB 35 strengthens
the mandatory reporting law when abortion is selected as an
option. He thought Alaska already had a pretty strong mandatory
reporting law for child sexual abuse, and wanted to hear from an
attorney about why they need to make it stronger.
1:43:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL responded that there are mandatory
reporting laws now, but part of the issue he is trying to
address in this bill is that an uncle, father or predator can
now impregnate a minor child, take her to an abortion clinic
anonymously or she can show up on her own and get an abortion,
and the only people that know are the providers and the child -
and possibly the abuser. Under those circumstances, there is
nothing to set the reporting in motion.
SENATOR ELLIS queried if it would only be in these cases or
would the strengthened mandatory reporting on the part of
doctors apply to all other cases of child sexual abuse that
don't involve a pregnancy.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL replied that this falls under Title 18
and it is not part of the criminal code under Title 11. Title 18
specifically says "an abortion may not be performed in the state
unless..." and that provision is under this heading. Abortion is
a highly litigated area, and he thinks mandatory reporting
should be part of this body of law.
1:45:18 PM
KATHERINE FOREST, Planned Parenthood, Anchorage, AK, opposed the
CS for HB 35. She is raising a five year old in a loving family
and is building good communications with her, but if this bill
passes she felt it would limit her rights as well as her ability
to get necessary medical care. If she had to get a judicial
bypass, she didn't know how she would get the information and
navigate the process in time to get the care.
1:48:59 PM
BRITTANY GOODNIGHT, Planned Parenthood, opposed HB 35. It would
have impacted her mom who was raped by her father. She just came
from a wonderful event called "Walk A Mile In Her Shoes" about
rape and domestic violence. It amazed her that the committee is
willing to look at notification, but wasn't addressing the root
of the problem. She was concerned that the judicial bypass,
which would take about 18 days if everything went well, would
make a person miss the option of having a first trimester
abortion. The only other options would be to fly out or to
continue with the pregnancy.
1:52:09 PM
KATE FITZGERALD, representing herself, opposed HB 35. Judicial
bypass may seem like an alternative, she said, but teens are
likely to seek other alternatives rather than face the judicial
process. And how many teens would want to admit they've been
abused much less get it notarized, she remarked.
1:53:33 PM
THEDA PITTMAN, representing herself, Anchorage, opposed HB 35.
The Governor reported that some people think an unplanned
pregnancy is an inconvenience, but she couldn't imagine this
being just an inconvenience. The sponsor says it is aimed at
teens in a loving family, but that logically is aiming at teens
that don't need the help in the first place. It's time to
realize that government can't enforce religious or moral
beliefs.
1:55:36 PM
BRITTANY CHEONEY, Juneau, opposed HB 35. No law can mandate
communication she said, and it would not have even applied in
her situation as she had loving parents and had no abuse. But
she still dreaded telling her parents. She did obtain an
abortion at age 18.
This bill has a lot of unanswered questions, she said. How would
teens in rural areas access the court system? How would they be
informed about what they have to do to obtain a judicial bypass?
What if there is abuse and they have to get a letter to
corroborate and why is the list so limited? Why does the sibling
have to be 21?
MS. CHOENEY remarked that if you want to reduce abortion, why
not fund family planning and access to birth control. Juneau is
the only place in the state that provides access to birth
control in high school. Abstinence is not effective, so give the
teens all of the information they need by developing
comprehensive sex education in schools. Invest in education and
extracurricular activities; use resources efficiently.
2:00:20 PM
CAROLINE SHULTZ, representing herself, Chugiak, opposed HB 35.
She was concerned about the inequity in its application between
the women in rural Alaska and urban Alaska. How would women in
the rural areas access the courts or get the information on how
to negotiate the process? She said we should not be putting up
barriers in these important decision situations.
She was concerned that some girls would have no one who would
corroborate an incident in the case of a judicial bypass, and if
a girl is abused, she may not feel safe in going to the police.
They trust her to become a mother, but not to testify to her own
abuse, she remarked. This bill makes it illegal to coerce
someone to have an abortion, but what about coercing them not
to? Parents have a lot of control. A lot of questions have not
been answered.
2:04:27 PM
JEFFREY MITTMAN, Executive Director, American Civil Liberties
Union (ACLU) Alaska, opposed HB 35. He said it puts Alaska teens
at risk for their health and safety. Requiring notification does
not protect teens; good family communication cannot be mandated.
If this law passed it would have terrible consequences in the
real world because, "We know that desperate teens will do
desperate and dangerous things."
MR. MITTMAN said leading medical organizations whose members
provide care for the vast majority of adolescents have policies
explicitly opposing mandatory parental notification. A judicial
bypass isn't a solution. A desperate teen isn't going to know
how to navigate the process, and if she could, she would be
unlikely to disclose her intimate details to the court.
2:07:37 PM
SENATOR DYSON asked if he thought other types of medical care
for minors should be exempted from parental notification.
MR. MITTMAN replied that the court generally looks at a
balancing test of needs and rights. If a teen requires treatment
to end an addiction and needed medical treatment for
rehabilitation, the courts would likely look at whether the
notice would endanger the life of the teen and maybe rule that
it would unconstitutional to endanger that child's safety by
requiring notification. It's not a black and white answer.
SENATOR DYSON said he understands that all of those kinds of
treatments require parental consent, and asked if he is
advocating removing it for drug and alcohol treatment.
MR. MITTMAN gave an analogy of an emergency medical treatment.
If a student were in the middle of a school day and experienced
a case of appendicitis, was rushed to the hospital and the
hospital could not reach the teen's mother or father to receive
informal consent for the operation, the hospital would not
refuse to operate under the notification requirement. It would
do what was necessary to save the life of the teen. This is the
standard that courts look at in determining the scope and extent
of notification.
SENATOR DYSON said he was asking if they should consider a
bypass or ways around other types of notification for activities
that parents might frown on like drug and alcohol treatment
where the child might be reluctant to admit to their parents
that they had those problems.
2:10:13 PM
MR. MITTMAN replied that given the complexity of any
legislation, he would have to look at what the risks of a
proposal were before giving a specific answer.
SENATOR ELLIS asked if he could speak to the legal ramifications
regarding the no-coercion clause of the parent or guardian to
terminate the pregnancy. He noted that no prohibition exists on
coercion in the other direction.
MR. MITTMAN said that coercion of any kind would be prohibited.
The bill actually enacts protections that already exist in law.
2:12:56 PM
LAYANYA SEMONES, representing herself, Fairbanks, opposed HB 35.
She wondered how a teen would manage all of the legalities
required by this law. This law would put more teenagers in
danger. You won't hear testimony today from the abusive and
uninvolved parents.
SENATOR ELLIS asked how frequently she hears from young women
that their parents "would kill them" or throw them out of the
house.
MS. SEMONES said she is more concerned about kids like her
cousins who didn't even know where their parents were.
2:16:13 PM
TAMMY WILSON, representing herself, Fairbanks, supported HB 35.
She did not think it fair that her child would have the option
of not speaking to her about such a significant problem.
2:17:39 PM
EILEEN BECKER, Director, Pregnancy Care Center, Homer, supported
HB 35. It retains parental rights to be notified as to what is
happening with their children, but kids would also have someone
they could go to if they were in an abusive situation. She
encouraged them to not listen to the comments of other
organizations; this is something good as opposed to something
bad.
SENATOR ELLIS asked if she thought a person should have to be 21
years of age to corroborate sexual abuse.
MS. BECKER replied that she thought 21 was better a better age.
2:21:13 PM
CHRISTINE FONTAINE, Project Director, Kachemak Bay Family
Planning Clinic, Homer, opposed HB 35 because of her personal
knowledge of young people on the Peninsula who would be
affected. Who would be responsible to inform the girls of their
legal rights? Who would help them through the system, which can
be very intimidating? What about rural girls who don't have
physical access to the system or those who may have language
issues? These girls are pregnant and need health care no matter
what choice is made regarding the pregnancy, and barriers should
not be placed in front of them.
2:25:11 PM
JOSEPH LAPP, Kachemak Bay Family Planning Clinic, opposed HB 35,
because the court system is difficult and not set up with teens
in mind.{ This notification would be difficult for him now, much
less when he was a teen. He also was concerned about coercion
regarding the abortion decision. This is another way the
government intrudes into peoples' lives; it doesn't help teens.
The only proven ways to reduce abortion are sex education and
family planning.
2:27:07 PM
CHERYL HUMME, representing herself, Barrow, opposed HB 35. A
woman's choice is hers and hers alone. What if parents and
teenagers want to do different things? Are we willing to force a
young woman to carry a pregnancy she doesn't want? You can't
legislate healthy families or healthy communications. What works
is education about healthy relations. She is happy for teens in
good families who have someone to help them, but think of the
teens who don't have any one to confide in.
2:30:57 PM
KALEN SAXTON, representing herself, Anchorage, opposed HB 35.
She has provided parent education for over 20 years for the
Center for Families. She has provided intakes and interventions
of parents who abused or were in danger of abusing their
children. After 40 years of experience in this field, she still
supports the right of a woman or teen to end a pregnancy
especially when it is due to rape or abuse.
2:33:27 PM
DEBBI JOSLIN, Eagle Forum, supported CSHB 35 although she
preferred that it would include parental consent. This law puts
children in the driver's seat and opens the door for predators
to take advantage of them. Twenty states have some kind of
notification law and one study found that parental consent
reduces abortions. Parental notification laws aren't as
effective. Everyone agrees that fewer abortions are better so
this bill should be passed.
MS. JOSLIN mused that adoption is an option and then very little
harm is done. She says the suicide rate and alcohol use is
higher in girls who have abortions. As for drug abuse and other
serious situations, she thought parents should be informed of
everything.
2:38:55 PM
CLOVER SIMONE, Vice President, Alaska Planned Parenthood,
opposed HB 35. In her clinics she generally sees that the
parents accompany the child, but the ones who will be adversely
affected by this bill are the most vulnerable teens in our
society. She asked who in the foster care system teens would go
to and was concerned about the 48 hour waiting time constraint
if the choice is to terminate the pregnancy. She also worries
about teens taking things into their own hands.
Last she worried about women falling victim to predators.
Medical providers do participate in protecting women in these
circumstances; they will not perform an abortion if there is any
question of the willingness of that young woman to have an
abortion. She questioned that this was the most effective way to
prevent and reduce abortions.
2:43:26 PM
SENATOR ELLIS asked if she has anything more specific to offer
regarding the health impacts of the waiting period or other
aspects of the legislation.
MS. SIMONE answered that the concern is that it adds time to a
time-sensitive procedure, and they already know that young women
generally won't come to the clinic until it is a little later
than most older women would. So that delay pushes them even
closer to the limits of the first trimester. The earlier the
procedure is done, the safer it is. She advocated education and
family planning.
SENATOR DYSON said in times past officials in Planned Parenthood
said funds were available for indigent young women to get a
late-term abortion and asked if that was still true.
MS. SIMONE replied that an abortion loan fund is operated by
another non-profit in Alaska that sometimes has funding to help
women travel, but it is pretty limited.
2:47:20 PM
PAMELA SAMASH, representing herself, strongly supported HB 35.
She thought required notification would create an opportunity to
break the cycle of abuse, and that forcing a sexually abused
girl to have an abortion benefits the abuser. She also agreed
with the judicial bypass provision believing a baby is just one
part of a bigger situation that the bypass would expose - thus
helping to break the pattern of behavior.
2:52:18 PM
KIRSTEN STROLLE, representing herself, said she works with at-
risk youth and opposed HB 35. In her experience these youth will
often go to great lengths to protect their homes despite how bad
things are in them. They think they are talking about
hypothetical situations, but the reality is that one in ten
people in the U.S. will be sexually abused in their life time.
Alaska has six times the national average for childhood sexual
abuse. The trauma of the abuse compounded by pregnancy with the
overwhelming amount of roadblocks that this bill would place in
their way, would seem insurmountable to an adult let alone to a
teen.
2:53:41 PM
PATRICIA ODDEN, representing herself, strongly opposed HB 35.
She has seven children and three grandchildren and is familiar
with the struggles a teenager faces with pregnancy, and can only
imagine a pregnant teenager who is afraid in rural Alaska where
access to lawyers and notification is much more limited than in
urban settings. Traditional Native families do not live like the
families that this bill assumes; she was raised by parents and
spent a long time being raised by her grandmother. This is not
uncommon. She wanted to see how her concern for the health and
safety of teenagers in rural Alaska could be addressed.
2:55:47 PM
NANCY BISHOP, representing herself, opposed CSHB 35. She has
been accepted to medical school and plans to return to Alaska to
practice medicine. While she supports parental involvement in
all important family decisions, she said this measure would
prevent doctors from providing the best care for their patients.
Despite the best intentions, laws requiring parental
notification or consent for abortion in other states increase
the number of later term abortions or even worse, the number of
home remedies and back alley abortions.
The doctors' mandatory two-hour notifications to parents over a
24-hour period and certified letter are not in reality going to
work. She said that Alaskans already face enormous obstacles in
accessing health care, particularly in rural communities. She
couldn't see why they would want to place another barrier in
front of a teen dealing with unplanned pregnancy.
This bill (section 2 of the CS) also unclearly implies that the
doctors who are helping in an emergency situation could be
immediately prosecuted even if he is acting in the best
interests of the teen. The passage of this bill would make her
question her desire to return to Alaska to practice medicine.
2:58:48 PM
AMBER SAWYER, President, Voices for Planned Parenthood Club,
UAA, opposed the CS to HB 35. She said it took her two years to
tell one person that she had been raped over a period of six
months at age 14 when she lived in the MatSu Valley. It took her
over four and a half years and eight months of counseling just
to tell her parents that she had been raped. She didn't know how
she would have been able to face being pregnant and trying to
get their permission at the time - especially coming from a very
conservative Catholic family.
She had a friend who she knew since she was 10 years old who was
being sexually abused by her mother's boyfriend; they had
reported it at school and to the police, and "she was stuck in
the home for eight years after we first reported it before she
was taken away from her mother." If this bill had been in effect
then, her mother was so drunk and her dad was out of the country
that she wouldn't have been able to get permission to have an
abortion. She was the oldest of four children and was 50 lbs.
underweight when she was finally taken away from her mother.
MS. SAWYER said she is 21 years old, and because of her
volunteering and having siblings who are 17 and 9, she is
probably more in touch with the kids in the second largest
school district in the state than a lot of people they have
already heard from who are parents. She knows students who got
pregnant in high school when she was there who committed suicide
because they could not tell their parents that they were
pregnant - even if it was a product of rape. She said:
The problem with this bill is not how it will apply to
each and every person, because if it goes into effect,
the person that it counts, that it applies to, is the
one who kills herself because she cannot be pregnant
when she is 13 and she can't handle telling her
parents.
The reason she used the age 13 is because she volunteers at
Providence Hospital and has seen six girls who are 13 years old
come through in the last nine months and have babies, including
one who had twin girls who were three months premature. When her
mother was asked to comment afterward, instead of saying how
beautiful the babies were, the mother said, "It's her own fault;
when she's 18, it's on her."
MS. SAWYER stated:
Students in Alaska, especially teenage girls, already
face enough issues. I have lost count of how many I
have seen at the University from in and outside of
Alaska who were sexually abused including members of
my club and members of "The Students for Life."
It's not a matter if you're against abortion or for
abortion with this bill. It's what to do for kids
living and being able to get to the point where they
can tell their parents on their own....This bill is
just causing problems and is asking for even more
trouble than our state already has in sexual assault
and rape.
3:03:26 PM
ANTHONY FISHBACK, representing himself, opposed the CS to HB 35.
He is a father of two children. In a remote village in 1998 a
co-worker's 14 year old sister became pregnant and did not know
what do, so she put a walrus butchering-knife to her belly and
tried to remove the child. Both survived for two years. Two
years after the toddler died of complications, she committed
suicide.
3:05:25 PM
DONNA STARK, representing herself, opposed the CS to HB 35.
Asking underage girls to go before the court to explain their
situation is a direct violation of their right to privacy, she
stated. She directed the committee's attention to the state
website about informed consent regarding abortion that everyone
must read and sign that they have looked at before they can get
an abortion. The section about abortion methods, under abortion
risks, states that "generally speaking, the earlier an abortion
is performed, the safer it is for the woman. The risk of
complications increases with advancing fetal age." This applies
directly to the judicial bypass situation where time is going to
be wasted when a girl could have her abortion as early as
possible without infringing upon her privacy.
Alaskan health care providers are already required to report
situations where children are being abused, raped, and incest.
Having people go to court including the victimizer afterwards
would be appropriate.
3:08:14 PM
RICK SICKMA, representing himself, Sitka, supported the CS to HB
35. This bill has nothing to do with parental violence; it has
to do with parental control of their families. He has a
daughter-in-law who was 13 years old when she went through an
abortion. She still has problems because they didn't properly
inform her and didn't tell her parents. If her parents had
known, she never would have had that abortion and today she
would probably have a healthy child.
MR. SICKMA said he has been the president of the crisis
pregnancy center in Fairbanks for 10 years and had to deal very
often with young women who had abortions. Every one of them
without exception either tried to commit suicide or thought
about it.
3:10:06 PM
LISA EGAN, representing herself, totally opposed HB 35. She is a
former high school teacher at JDHS and taught for the Choice
Program, the program for students at risk of not graduating. She
is a mother and she is pregnant.
Her biggest motivation in testifying today is her experience
gained by being a teacher. As a teacher she knows it is really
hard to get a hold of parents. What doctor has the time or will
take the time to do that; and who will pay for it?
Some of the kids she taught went for days without knowing where
their parents were - whether they were supportive or not. She
said that kids do tell her that their parents will throw them
out of the house if they tell them about being pregnant. She has
had students who would get very upset if they have to stay after
school because, as she found out two years later, they had to be
home to protect their siblings from abuse. A lot of times they
don't tell about abuse, because they know they would get taken
away and then they wouldn't be able to protect their younger
siblings.
MS. EGAN also clarified that the Teen Health Center can provide
a prescription for birth control, but not the medication. The
Teen Health Center at the High School is a great thing and more
of them are needed. More access to birth control is needed.
The time constraints in this bill are very real and. In her own
pregnancy, she tried to get some tests that she couldn't get
because she couldn't get an appointment in time - and this is in
Juneau. If we can't get things done in a timely manner here,
it's not going to happen rurally either.
Also, some people are saying there is harm done if you have an
abortion, but if you don't have an abortion, no harm is done.
But it's not easy creating a healthy child while you are
pregnant. A parent told her that she didn't really want "that
kid" so she drank and drank thinking it would make her have a
miscarriage, but it never worked. "He just kept living." That's
not a healthy situation. Teens who don't want a pregnancy are
not going to take vitamins. "So, you can't just say it's healthy
if you force someone to have a baby, because it takes a lot of
work."
She asked what their motivation was for passing this bill. Every
parent already has the right to talk to their kids about sex,
abortion and birth control, she said. Then she asked them when
the last time was they did that or their constituents.
3:16:03 PM
SENATOR ELLIS asked if she thought this would increase the
problem of homeless youth, because that would present a
potential social services impact which is the under the purview
of this committee.
MS. EGAN replied that from her experience in the CHOICE program,
definitely yes. That happens often and she has had it confirmed
by many parents who have told her they have said that to their
kids whether they decided to have an abortion or not. Many of
her students were "couch surfing." That is one of the main
reasons she quit teaching.
3:17:39 PM
DAVID ROGERS, representing himself, said he is the father of 13
children and supported HB 35. His wife made it clear during her
all her pregnancies that if her life was on the line during the
birthing process, the child was to be saved first.
He had a sister-in-law who became pregnant as a teenager and she
had a hard time telling her parents. When she did tell them,
they advised her they would put the child up for adoption. He
and his wife asked her to keep the child. She ended up keeping
the child and about a month ago that child joined the Marine
Corp. She is now the proud mother of five children. It was hard
to raise that child at the time, but it was the right decision,
and the regret she would have had would have been impossible for
her to live with. He concluded:
These are children that are being killed; it is
America's genocide that is going on right now. If we
don't deal with this, I don't see how God is going to
bless this country the way we constantly ask him to.
3:21:06 PM
SUSAN REEVES, representing herself, opposed HB 35. She did not
support parental notification. She is the mother of three
children and will be intensely involved with their upbringing.
She will be speaking them about intelligent decisions and if
they feel the need to make a decision like this, she would
support them and be a part of it. But she hoped that if other
children who don't have supportive parents and are in different
situations would be able to have the right to make this decision
on their own. She feared what they would be dealing with
afterwards if this bill passed.
3:22:13 PM
LAURA HORNING, representing herself, supported CSHB 35. She said
this bill doesn't debate the merits of abortion; the real debate
is does the child have a right to keep a huge potentially
dangerous secret from her parents or does the parent have a
right to know when their child is having a major surgery of
abortion. Every other medical treatment requires a parent's
signature. It's simply logical. When a child is faced with a
decision of this magnitude, she is not going to make it alone.
She will seek the advice of someone and most likely an adult.
3:23:39 PM
CHAIR DAVIS closed public testimony on HB 35. She said the bill
needs further work and is willing to hold a hearing tomorrow.
She asked the members to comment.
3:24:44 PM
SENATOR DYSON said this bill has had considerable work in the
other body. He moved to discharge HB 35 from committee with
individual recommendations. He stated that he is happy with its
current form. "It's well done, but there will be more time for
the work to be done in Judiciary."
CHAIR DAVIS expressed the view that the bill needs further work.
As Chair of this committee she hasn't had the opportunity to
provide input and she isn't ready to move it.
SENATOR ELLIS said it's clear that the health and social service
impacts of this legislation have not been adequately addressed.
"I would want more work to be done on those two things that are
the purview of this committee."
CHAIR DAVIS asked if there was objection to moving HB 35 from
committee.
SENATOR ELLIS objected to the motion.
A roll call vote was taken. Senator Dyson voted yea; Senators
Ellis, Thomas, Paskvan and Davis voted nay; therefore, CSHB
35(FIN)(CT RULE FLD)(EFD FLD) failed to move from committee.
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